What do you think is the role of social pressures to affect changes in health habits in general and obesity in particular? And what's the effective way to use social pressure factors in changing public behavior? Social norms are extraordinarily important, but they're also difficult to change. And we saw that with smoking, it took a lot to make smoking, unacceptable behavior. In the area where I live in Northern California, there are still areas where it is the norm. People have argued that tobacco is more addictive than heroin. That may be the case. I don't know if it is or not, but certainly, it's enormously addictive. And certainly, losing weight is extremely difficult. The social norms and pressures we have to work on are those that have to do with things portion size, going into a restaurant and being served in food for two people is the evidence shows that people tend to consume a certain percentage of what's put in front of them, whether it's a large plate or a small plate. They put a big plate in, they eat more pluses in the United States and so much larger than in Europe. That's right. That's right. We also have to think about how work life and family life are eating alone or eating fast food. Oh, because you don't have time to prepare food. Because it's cheap, how that contributes to it. We have to think about norms that have to do with the quality of food, substituting, perhaps locally produced or possible, nutritious food for frozen or prepackaged food. There's a whole variety of things obesity is enormously complex. They're the foresight group in the United Kingdom. Did a map of all the factors that contribute to obesity, ranging from the psychological to the food production side, the biological side, and there are hundreds of factors that contribute there, there's not going to be any magic thing, we're not going to be able to eliminate obesity, in my opinion by eliminating high fructose corn syrup or by somehow intervening on carbohydrates or this or that I don't think any single thing is going to do it. These problems developed over a long period, they'll take a long time to reduce. We did show in a simulation model that we have that the body mass index difference between blacks and whites, could be dramatic could be dramatically lessened, perhaps even eliminated.
In less than 20 years. One generation by intervening on the walkability of the neighborhoods in which people live by the availability of good food, and by increasing the quality of education, so in that simulation model, which is up to, which is a model, not an intervention, we were able to eliminate BMI differences between blacks and whites in 20 years. So that's another underscoring the importance of socioeconomic factors rather than trying to look for a magic pill a major diet on an individual level. It is the societal factors that will make in such enormous problems, the most impact. Absolutely, yeah. Thank you very much for this conversation. Thank you.